Rising electricity prices

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Post by KeithB1 » Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:54 pm

Hello folks. Have any PHEV owners on here considered the effect of rising electricity prices, particularly with effect from April when the price cap is re-set, on the costs of running your plug-in? When I was weighing up the pros and cons of buying a PHEV our electricity was costing under 15p/kwh. Now because our supplier went bust we're paying over 20p/kwh and when the new price cap comes in I wouldn't be surprised if we end up paying 30p/kwh. I think this will pretty much negate the cost benefits of running a PHEV as against a petrol engined car. There's also the question of how the government is going to claw back the revenue they will lose from reduced petrol/diesel sales. If they put it on home electricity prices there'll be no point in buying a PHEV. I don't know how these changes will affect EV sales generally but they won't help, that's for sure. Has anybody else been thinking about this or is it just me?

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Post by NLineS » Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:46 pm

Yes I’ve thought about it and then moved on as there’s not much that you can do about it other then run on the petrol engine if the electric costs get out of hand.

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Post by DrElectron » Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:51 pm

i've calculated the break even point at about 40p / kwh.

If you had access to a BP Pulse charging point, the £8 per month works out to around 25p per day. Charge 3 times per month and you're better off.

Note: many assumptions were made to come up with this conclusions

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Post by KeithB1 » Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:42 pm

Thanks for that DrE. Would you mind explaining your method of calculating your b/e price please.

There is a free BP pulse point about a mile or so away from us but I must admit I don't fancy the idea of hanging around for 2 hrs waiting for the car to charge up, especially with the weather as it is at the moment, and I can't think of anything useful I could be doing nearby.

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Post by DrElectron » Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:58 pm

Hi Keith,

As i said its a bit of an approximation as it makes a few assumptions, but here goes:

Petrol price per liter: 145 (660 pence per gallon)
miles per gallon 38

... that gives you 17p per mile on petrol

Electric range: 32 miles

... that mileage should cost you (on petrol) 544p

Battery capacity is 13.8Kwh so divide 544p / 13.8kWh gives you 39.5p per kWh

... Thats the price electricity should cost you in order to break even with petrol ... ish

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Post by KeithB1 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:39 pm

Thanks DrE. This is quite interesting I think, not least because everyone is going to have a different B/E price because the petrol price per mile is going to vary based on an individual's use of the car i.e. journey length, roads used, trafficc conditions etc. I doubt I'll get anywhere near your 38mpg-I'll be lucky to get 28mpg, which, using your petrol price gives me a ppm of 23.6.
If I use your electric range of 32 miles that would cost me £7.54 in petrol terms which would give me a B/E figure of 54.6p/Kwh-a much higher figure than I was thinking.

I'm going to run my car in hybrid mode for a couple of weeks to see how much petrol I use to get a reasonably accurate mpg figure and then see what I can do to establish my actual battery range. The problem there is that because of the outside temperature most of my journeys are run with both the engine and battery operating together most of the time making it impossible to get a battery-only range. I think I might as well stick with your 32 miles until the warmer weather returns and I am able to operate on just battery power. Of course when the warmer weather returns my petrol mpg should improve and the contribution of the engine should be less so the B/E figure will change again. Getting complicated now!

I'll post again when I have some results I'm reasonably confident in.

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Post by chrisdobb » Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:41 am

There seems to be very little conversation around the tax implications of Electric vehicles.
I really cannot see the EV taking off, in a big, way for some good time yet; apart from all the logistical and infrastructure challenges the tax ramifications are enormous.
Domestic electricity is currently taxed at 5% VAT & a green contribution, only, yet liquid fuel is taxed at God knows what – not just VAT but fuel tax and purchase tax, how will the government make up the enormous short fall of all the tax lost.
Further how EV use will be calculated against domestic use, smart chargers are not yet up to that task so presumably that will mean all current chargers will need to be replaced, much like smart domestic electric meters, mine has now been changed three times!
I can fully see the theory of EVs is great for the user who is commuting with a decent mileage and returning home most nights to recharge, for the moment, but once the majority switch to EVs what will happen then.
All of the above does not take any account of people with no at home parking, those who live in rentals or high rise or those who only do low mileage so cannot justify the much higher initial purchase cost.
It seems to me a very good idea which is being implemented well before the product; infrastructure and logistics are available or even discovered yet.
One final point looking at the average fuel filling station of today, how many recharging points will we need to achieve the same throughput of refuelling vehicles.
Until we get to “switchable” batteries I cannot see this technology working for all.

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Post by DrElectron » Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:33 pm

Personally I highly doubt switchable batteries will ever become mainstream for cars. Hydrogen fuel cell fills the gap for those where electric is unsuitable such as lorries buses etc, electric range isn't really the issue, charging time is. However high power DC charging largely negates that problem (who is regularly driving 300 miles+ without a rest break, if the are, they probably shouldn't be) the issue is availability of chargers!

I read a report a while back about the issue of lack of parking in apartments etc, and it reckoned that c.80% of people in this situation live in busy cities and only 25% of them own a car (probably mostly in London).
What do they do for energy now? Drive to a location and refuel, exactly the same as they will in the future, just with electricity rather than hydrocarbons.
It's a problem which affects a minority of people, in reality.

With regard the tax revenue losses, it's probably less than the fine we will get for failing to meet emissions targets. It will end up being absorbed into general taxation.

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Post by NoTwOld » Wed Jan 26, 2022 3:23 pm

I don't know if anyone has seen the 5th Gear Recharge program, all to do with EV's, in last weeks program it showed a company that have a set up for there own cars for
"Battery exchange"
You go to the site bit like petrol station back into a bay turn your car off, little bit of cluck click you car turns on and you drive out in under 5 minutes with a fully charged replacement battery

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Post by NoTwOld » Wed Jan 26, 2022 3:43 pm

I don't know if anyone has found this but a friend of mine has just purchased a new house and new houses come with a wall charger, they asked if it could be fitted inside the garage but were told they were not allowed due to regulations it must be fitted externally ?

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